I dont understand why females who are new to APA are rated a SL 2 while males are rated a SL 3. What happened to equal rights? Females want to be equal with men but it seems like if it benefits them, then its ok, the females don't put up a fuss.
I feel if on the pool table we should be created equal if women can shoot in playoffs as a 2 then guys should be able to doso to I have seen enough guys that play worse then females but then when playoffs come they have to shoot as a 3 that's discrimative towards males and that ain't right that's y the apa has there "equalizer" right
you know the way that things go when what you fight for starts to fall and in that fuzzy picture the writing stands out on the wall so clearly on the wall
send out the signals deep and loud
and in this place, can you reassure me with a touch, a smile - while the cradle's burning all the while the world is turning to noise oh the more that it's surrounding us the more that it destroys turn up the signal wipe out the noise
send out the signals deep and loud
man i'm losing sound and sight of all those who can tell me wrong from right when all things beautiful and bright sink in the night yet there's still something in my heart that can find a way to make a start to turn up the signal wipe out the noise
746 Posts
Posted 03/12/2010 : 09:54:00 AM
Topic has been beaten to death!!! Do a search and you'll find them and the APA's reasoning for the difference.
Bob Swauger Maryland APA Web Admin
Pool Players, designing for Pool Players. Search is still your friend!
Well MR BOB Swauger, I am new to APA and looking around as much as I can. The things that are beaten to death are Rude comments like yours. The time you took typing your non helpful comment, you could have been polite and just answered it. Since you displayed a negative remark on her for everyone to read, why not contact me personally. Thank you.
you know the way that things go when what you fight for starts to fall and in that fuzzy picture the writing stands out on the wall so clearly on the wall
send out the signals deep and loud
and in this place, can you reassure me with a touch, a smile - while the cradle's burning all the while the world is turning to noise oh the more that it's surrounding us the more that it destroys turn up the signal wipe out the noise
send out the signals deep and loud
man i'm losing sound and sight of all those who can tell me wrong from right when all things beautiful and bright sink in the night yet there's still something in my heart that can find a way to make a start to turn up the signal wipe out the noise
746 Posts
Posted 03/16/2010 : 4:54:13 PM
I assure you I was not attempting to come off as rude. As for a simple answer: there isn't one. Read those other posts and you'll see people argue over this constantly and for the record I fall on your side of the argument and think the current set up is unfiar on many levels but the APA has their reasoning for this and isn't going to change it.
The brevity of my reply was intended not to hatch another debate on it. Here are two topics I found with a quick search. Some are tangents of what you're questioning but along the same line:
If I have a chance I'll locate some more (possibly on other APA sites). This is debated across the US and Canada. There is one topic inparticular where someone actually got a written letter from someone in St Louis about it and to paraphrase it basically said that prior to the rule (which has to be over 15 years ago) that almost all male 2s entering post session play exited it as 3s or 4s. Because of this they opted to make all males play in HLT (higher level tournaments) as 3s.
Again, I disagree with with that assessment and have reposted this against my better judgement because I know what will follow.
Bob Swauger Maryland APA Web Admin
Pool Players, designing for Pool Players. Search is still your friend!
you know the way that things go when what you fight for starts to fall and in that fuzzy picture the writing stands out on the wall so clearly on the wall
send out the signals deep and loud
and in this place, can you reassure me with a touch, a smile - while the cradle's burning all the while the world is turning to noise oh the more that it's surrounding us the more that it destroys turn up the signal wipe out the noise
send out the signals deep and loud
man i'm losing sound and sight of all those who can tell me wrong from right when all things beautiful and bright sink in the night yet there's still something in my heart that can find a way to make a start to turn up the signal wipe out the noise
746 Posts
Posted 03/17/2010 : 10:59:37 AM
No worries. There is no harm in the topic. It's one many want to understand (myself included).
Experieence just tells me it's like the 23 rule and will never change.
Bob Swauger Maryland APA Web Admin
Pool Players, designing for Pool Players. Search is still your friend!
but the 23 rule did change. I read here on these forums that at one time it was 25, then 24 before it got to 23...I read it on the internet so it has to be true.
you know the way that things go when what you fight for starts to fall and in that fuzzy picture the writing stands out on the wall so clearly on the wall
send out the signals deep and loud
and in this place, can you reassure me with a touch, a smile - while the cradle's burning all the while the world is turning to noise oh the more that it's surrounding us the more that it destroys turn up the signal wipe out the noise
send out the signals deep and loud
man i'm losing sound and sight of all those who can tell me wrong from right when all things beautiful and bright sink in the night yet there's still something in my heart that can find a way to make a start to turn up the signal wipe out the noise
746 Posts
Posted 03/17/2010 : 3:25:57 PM
25 years ago.., it did change.
Bob Swauger Maryland APA Web Admin
Pool Players, designing for Pool Players. Search is still your friend!
This is a topic that has been discussed alot. As a female I feel it is unfair not only to the guys but also to the females. Pool is a game of skill not strength.
I agree with Ramona. I am a "solid 2" LOL! but then again, My Tuesday night pool league is the 1 night a week I get away from the family. I am there to meet people, have fun and play pool. I do not have the time to dedicate to practice 10-15 hours/week which is what it would take for me to become a really solid player. When my team goes to the playoffs ( which is frequently, 6 of 8 sessions since I started), we are penalized because I can stand and pee vs an equal skill level player on another team who does not have the same equipment below the belt line. :-) Think about how strategy has to change in the playoffs when I am elevated to a "3", it can take one of our team's higher level players out of the strategy because we lose a point when I am played.
I know this has been beaten to death, but really, when "have fun" is compromised because of a gender bias, one has to wonder why....
I agree that gender shouldn't make a difference at any time...including the playoffs. I think that the playoff SL's should be determined by your level of play during the year. Whatever your highest SL was during session play, you should have to play at that level throughout the HLT's. If you advanced to a higher SL, there was a reason you got there. I think this would also help to eliminate some "sandbagging".
you know the way that things go when what you fight for starts to fall and in that fuzzy picture the writing stands out on the wall so clearly on the wall
send out the signals deep and loud
and in this place, can you reassure me with a touch, a smile - while the cradle's burning all the while the world is turning to noise oh the more that it's surrounding us the more that it destroys turn up the signal wipe out the noise
send out the signals deep and loud
man i'm losing sound and sight of all those who can tell me wrong from right when all things beautiful and bright sink in the night yet there's still something in my heart that can find a way to make a start to turn up the signal wipe out the noise
746 Posts
Posted 03/23/2010 : 11:45:26 AM
I've been on teams where we've had a real male 2. Great guy, loved the game, gave it all every week and occasionally pulled out a win. He showed up every week to hang out with his friends and play. It was fun but like most of us he was competitive and wanted to shoot. My wife was also on the team and a true 2 as well. Because the team did have some higher skill levels we need both him and my wife. At least on of them played every week.
But come playoff time he was made a three for no reason other than his gender and it was clearly to our advantage to shoot my wife because we could field a stronger team behind her and because there is a certain mental disadvantage when you know you've been artificially raised. That doesn't take into account the fact that the other team can clearly see his skill level crossed out in red and know he's playing at a higher level than he normally does.
So the bottom line is he didn't play much in playoffs unless we were up 2-0 an they threw up a 7 in desperation where he was a sacrifice. He grew tired of only being part of the team during the regular session and eventually quit after 2 sessions. My problem with the rule is that if the APA caters to the new and inexperienced then why do this to them in hlt play? Citing statistics from years past is flawed in it's logic and honestly sterotypes both males and females. This is a sore spot with me not because he left the league but because we were a team of friends and we fit well under the 23 rule. I feel like he was forced out because he wasn't a good male pool player. Honestly I think he could have been with time and we could have used him even if he improved to a 3 or 4. But because he was basically raised for no reason he felt left out and lef the league before he ever got a chance to be taught the game and improve naturally like any female is allowed to do.
Bob Swauger Maryland APA Web Admin
Pool Players, designing for Pool Players. Search is still your friend!
Bob is there any way that the rule can be changed? Maybe a petition or members vote. But then I also disagree with a female starting as a SL 2 and a male as a SL 4. Split the difference and start them both as 3s.
1 Posts
Posted 03/12/2010 : 08:58:09 AM
